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Post by EspadaIII on Apr 16, 2024 8:28:23 GMT
It is strange how we get used to more and more tech in a car but in reality how much of it do we really need. I would be happy to drive our 19 year old very bashed Punto around Greater Manchester until it falls apart. All I need on top of the basic car itself is a decent satnav to avoid traffic and I have that on my phone. The car has a Bluetooth radio so I can sync calls.
Not sure I really need anything else for 95% of my driving time.
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WDB
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Post by WDB on Apr 16, 2024 8:40:47 GMT
I think the manufacturers have seen this coming. Volkswagen’s CARIAD, for one, has offered ‘lifetime’ support of AAOS - baselined at 15 years but recognising that things like Bugattis and Porsches are often bought to be kept for much longer. This gets into complicated matters of software architecture - making automotive applications modular and ‘containerised’ like datacentre systems, with standardised interfaces between modules, so that an update to one part doesn’t require matching changes in all the others.
There are enough vested interests here to give some confidence that we won’t have to throw away cars the way we’ve learned with phones — in any case, not many people have a drawer big enough. Nor do I think anyone will be throwing away a three-year-old iX because a new car has double the range with half the mass. It will go on doing pretty much what it does today for many years, and that will be value enough for someone — although the price attached to that value may be hard to predict until we have more data.
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bpg
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Post by bpg on Apr 16, 2024 9:30:17 GMT
If it ain't broke... is the wrong message for a connected vehicle with an end of life OS. All manufacturers may be working with their own flavour of AAOS, the underlying core is the weakness, once that is breached all systems top hatting that are vulnerable.
You can 'get away with it' on an old PC or mobile phone which has no account information used for infrequent web access, not for a two+ tonnes connected vehicle. Politicians will sit on their hands until a decision is made for them.
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WDB
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Post by WDB on May 16, 2024 11:30:35 GMT
Today’s email trumpets ‘Polestar 4 is here’. Only I really don’t think it is. I can order one but it’ll be Q3 at the earliest before I can even get a demo and, according to Polestar’s own media page, first deliveries are ‘expected’ in August.
I’ll probably still take up my test drive invitation when (if) it comes, because I’m curious like that, and an order would have required only a token deposit. But, while It’s undoubtedly a lovely piece of design, and neatly packaged for the space it offers, it’s hard to see the company delivering this and the 3 in meaningful numbers for quite a while, if ever. Not regretting ordering something else (and something made in Germany, not in China) just yet.
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bpg
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Post by bpg on May 16, 2024 12:43:17 GMT
As consumers we need to get smarter and be more selective and move away from ow much ! being the only consideration.
China supplying Russia with dual use tech, Russia becoming the main supplier of oil to China, entities in ME supplying Chinese dual use tech to Russia if the press is to be believed.
Closer to home public sector pension liabilities in 2020/21 exceeded GDP for the first time ever £2.3tn Vs £2.1tn with the tax payer covering 75% explains why the roads are crumbling and public services disappearing.
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Post by EspadaIII on May 16, 2024 12:48:05 GMT
It is odd that there really hasn't been much significant advance in the performance of EVs (performance I mean in terms of range and overall technology) since the EV6/Ionic 5 came out. Even now the EV6 is considered to be the best 'family EV' three years after it was released and with few if any upgrades. The I5 has got the bigger battery and a few minor changes (including a rear wiper!).
Disappointing that Volvo (and Ford) cannot get their best chance of volume EV sales to market before October this year.
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WDB
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Post by WDB on May 16, 2024 13:33:57 GMT
Yes, as was reported in the news this week, Ford is dealing with the 22% rule not by making more EVs to sell but by restricting UK sales to avoid diluting the few sales it can get.
On the overall picture, I think we've reached a temporary near-plateau in technological development but instead of great strides in performamce, we're seeing a proliferation of types, at least from a subset of makers. Stellantis is probably the leader - unless we count BYD, as we probably should - but Renault has been busy with Nissan tagging along, and Volkswagen is filling out its lineup. The Korean makers were there first but have more to come, like the EV4. Ford and Toyota (predictably) are the most obvious laggers.
I think we'll see the performance improvements in the next couple of years, as new battery technologies mature and makers drop the shared architecture model. I'm hoping that will encourage makers to prioritise lightness and efficiency rather than headline-grabbing range figures. A 200-mile EV today doesn't really need more range, it needs cheaper and easier public charging - and I think we'll see that too.
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bpg
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Post by bpg on May 16, 2024 14:16:17 GMT
I don't think manufacturers are choosing not to make cars and sell them, the demand is not there to hit 22% in the market. They will not sell a car at huge loss. If the projected sales for the year are say 11,000 EVs then total sales can only be 50,000. If the 50,001 vehicle is a £30k petrol car, a fine of £15k means it is not worth selling that car in the UK.
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WDB
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Post by WDB on May 16, 2024 14:25:58 GMT
I don't think manufacturers are choosing not to make cars and sell them... Ford explicitly said exactly that this week, at least for the UK market. www.ft.com/content/ff0f3966-0565-434b-81a7-9b2bb3c20e21Ford is prepared to restrict the sale of petrol models in the UK in order to hit the country’s stretching electric targets, a move that is likely to push up prices for consumers, its European boss has warned. ... He told a Financial Times summit that weak sales meant the company’s only option to avoid crippling fines under the UK’s new electric vehicle quota rules was to divert sales to other countries.
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bpg
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Post by bpg on May 16, 2024 14:40:34 GMT
Weak sales, being the whole EV market. Looking at the EV sales numbers for Q1 and extrapolating for the year Ford would have to capture around 10% of the whole UK EV market to enable them to sell the same number of vehicles as sold in 2023 and avoid fines. Every EV under 10% of total EV market reduces the total number of vehicles they can sell. Edit: Ford are not the only company. "Last month, Carlos Tavares, chief executive at Stellantis, which is the parent group of Vauxhall, Citroen, Peugeot and other major automotive brands, said the UK's ZEV mandate could see Stellantis slash the number of cars it sells in Britain, even refusing to rule out halting sales of some models altogether. But a source close to the company said the more likely option was that sales would be restricted or prices would rise to compensate." Source: www.thisismoney.co.uk/money/cars/article-13396647/Ford-boss-says-car-maker-restrict-availability-petrol-models-UK-order-hit-EV-sales-targets.htmlFor those restricted by the pay wall. I think it was also reported in the FT article. I recall also seeing a video with someone saying a similar thing for Skoda. VAG will benefit as a group if Cupra move enough EVs combined with VW ID.n models.
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Post by dixinormus on May 16, 2024 23:07:32 GMT
Don’t think many people will miss Ford. They’re living off pickup trucks and Mustangs these days. Their Powershift gearbox lost them a lot of customers down under, and enough already said about the EcoBoost.
They kill off the Fiesta whilst Renault are relaunching the 5…
And I wouldn’t buy a Polestar - or anything else - without a firm delivery date. Made that mistake ordering a C70 Volvo years ago.
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bpg
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Post by bpg on May 17, 2024 5:03:38 GMT
Manufacturers are more focused on exactly where they want to be and their target markets. You say, "not many people will miss Ford". The complaining about lack of choice in the marketplace is already heard and will get worse - you can have any EV as long as it's a crossover or SUV. Some new manufacturers will enter certain spaces within a market causing people to not notice the still reduced choice.
Setting a market cap for a product where demand is weak and attaching penalties will choke the market. The products in demand will come at a premium and can be used to subsidise the product with lower demand, nothing new there. Saying the price of EVs must come down what you are witnessing is the complete opposite, the price of petrol, diesel and plug-in hybrid will rise to EV levels.
The Fiesta v Renault 5 comment is quite laughable. One manufacturer phases out a vehicle to make space for a new EV in their lineup compared with a manufacturer launching a new EV rehashing an old name and a few styling queues. One of the manufacturers already did that and the sky was falling in according to conneseurs of internal combustion engined vehicles.
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WDB
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Post by WDB on Jul 2, 2024 8:00:31 GMT
The embargo on the 4 has now been lifted and the reviews are out. Bit mixed, and not just over who does and doesn’t like the rear view camera. But still no sign of actual deliveries, or even RHD cars. They told me in April there’d be test drives in June but we’re still hearing about pre-production cars and software tweaks. Not encouraging.
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Post by EspadaIII on Jul 2, 2024 10:49:24 GMT
On the other hand I have just had a call from the local Ford dealer with whom I made contact about six weeks ago about the Explorer EV. I was told I could not even touch a car until October at the earliest.
Well... "Would you like a short (20 minute) accompanied test drive on 25th July?" was the call today. Heck, Yes! I don't need more than 20 minutes to decide if the car will make it to the short list. I will worry about the little details when I can do a longer test drive.
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WDB
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Post by WDB on Jul 2, 2024 10:56:16 GMT
Sounds promising. Full report, please!
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