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Post by tyrednexited on Dec 4, 2020 16:29:46 GMT
We've had a decent amount of snow here today (melting at the moment, but the road had a couple of inches on it), so I've rounded off this phase of redecoration by replacing the requisite set of aged, and mismatched light switches and sockets with newer, matching ones. Not generally a difficult job as long as you identify the required switches (3-way wiring can be a challenge), but, when the original electrician's cable was seemingly limited largely to red, red, red, red, red, ...... and the bit of black found in the bottom of his bag, rewiring a 3-gang 2-way switch containing all bar one (black) red wires was "interesting", not least because the switch removed wasn't entirely conventional in its connections, and the terminal descriptions couldn't be read without completely unwiring it and removing it from the box. House hasn't burnt down yet, though  |
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Post by Humph on Dec 4, 2020 18:00:45 GMT
Yes, I attempted that a while back, unlike you, when faced with the ones with "too many wires" I decided to give up.
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Post by Deleted on Dec 4, 2020 20:02:58 GMT
..but, when the original electrician's cable was seemingly limited largely to red, red, red, red, red, ...... House hasn't burnt down yet, though I went through that when we had walls knocked around in the living room and dining room. Switches and sockets moved and replaced (some with USB) meant that the ones in the hallway etc needed replacing to match. Thankfully, the original sparky had put yellow sleaving at the end of each red wire that was a 'switched live'. One problem I thought that the contract sparky may have when moving the switches and sockets in the living/dining room was that current regulations state that joints in mains cables must be accessible for inspection and maintenance. Usually that means joining the cables in the existing pattress box and covering with a blanking plate (unsightly) or laying a new cable. There's a fairly new type of connector though. It's from a German company called Wago and they manufacture a connector that's certified as 'maintenance-free' so the joints could be made in the pattress box, covered and plastered over. Result! |
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Post by tyrednexited on Dec 4, 2020 20:47:47 GMT
Thankfully, the original sparky had put yellow sleaving at the end of each red wire that was a 'switched live'. ...not one bit of sleeving anywhere in sight, just a sea of unadorned red. I suspect it's been like that for the almost 50 years of the house. I imagined being in an episode of "Danger UXB" or some such and asking which wire to cut. "The red one". "But, but, but.....they're all.........". TBH, I'm not bad at "logicing out" wiring, but there were precious few initial clues. It's from a German company called Wago and they manufacture a connector that's certified as 'maintenance-free' so the joints could be made in the pattress box, covered and plastered over. Result! Wago make a good selection of electrical jointing products, a number of them I've used for both domestic and motorhome stuff (having discovered their use in a German-built motorhome). |
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Post by bromptonaut on Dec 5, 2020 9:43:01 GMT
We had a lot of red/red in the previous house, of similar vintage to TnE's. Standard issue for switched live I suspect. If it's a single switch - open or closed - then I guess it doesn't make much difference.
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Post by tyrednexited on Dec 5, 2020 13:36:19 GMT
....single-gang one-way switch (or even two-way) is no problem at all, whether the switched live is sleeved or not. A three-gang two-way switch using almost all unsleeved red is a rather different matter, made worse by the topography of the old switch "ports" being less than straightforward (and markedly different to its replacement) and none of the very faint switch labelling being visible until the switch has been completely removed from the wall (at which point, none of the wires are connected to the labelled ports, and all are the same colour). Give us a clue! 
...it is all perfectly logical, but not the easiest to figure out and substitute quickly. |
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Post by Humph on Dec 5, 2020 14:04:06 GMT
Odd how our minds work differently isn't it. Despite appearances, and countless rumours to the contrary, mine is more or less ok at certain things. I can operate reasonably efficiently in four languages and I can fairly forensically pick my way through a set of business accounts, or a legal document, but I look at that photo above and my brain just freezes.
Can't say why, and it's very frustrating, because the possibilities in it are limited, but my little grey cells just won't process it.
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Avant
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Post by Avant on Dec 5, 2020 17:33:26 GMT
Absolutely with you on that Humph: my abilities and failings are very similar!
The problem of course is that it's a three-gang switch, and you and I are natural fourth members of the gang.
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Post by EspadaIII on Dec 5, 2020 17:36:07 GMT
Same here. Give me a lease for a commercial property and I can wizz through and identify all the pitfalls in five minutes.
Ask me to read a lease for a photocopier...... I'm clueless.
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Post by Deleted on Dec 5, 2020 17:41:55 GMT
That's an abomination TnE. It's a good job that you sleeved or numbered the wires this time so that it's easier if you want to change them again in a few years time.  |
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Post by tyrednexited on Dec 5, 2020 17:54:00 GMT
...the modules on the rear of the new replacement switch are discrete (i.e. it consists of three separate com/L1/L2 switch modules side-by-side). The terminal identities are clearly marked, and can be seen without fully removing the switch and wires, so it would be much simpler if it needs doing again. Actually, once you realise that the switch pictured is in fact fairly similar in concept (but entirely unclear in marking) being three com/L1/L2 combinations but in a single unit, and that for the centre switch being head-to-toe with the outer two, it all becomes much clearer (and the permanent live loops in at one end, up to the other end at the centre, and down and out at the other end of the third switch). ...though, TBF, as I removed each wire, I did put a bit of annotated masking tape round it  |
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Post by Deleted on Dec 5, 2020 18:25:32 GMT
Yup, I'd sussed the layout by the 5 + 4 terminals and the offset, and the looping gives away the live.
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Post by Deleted on Dec 5, 2020 20:08:49 GMT
I went through something similar a few weeks ago in our downstairs bathroom though nor red, red, red and red I have to admit.
Lilac for neutral was a new one on me though and black and red for live and earth was a challenge which I negotiated with a meter. The bloke who built our house was a fantastic insulation engineer though I suspect colour blind as feck for electrics. Every time I have to take a switch off a wall I wince at what I'm going to find.
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Post by Humph on Dec 5, 2020 20:16:55 GMT
And you being a sparky as well !
😉
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Post by Deleted on Dec 5, 2020 20:24:25 GMT
Only when I have to, unless sparky has some other Edinburgh connotation like fud ? I had a FIAT Coupe with a FUD number plate which got some smiles in Edinburgh !  Once I got completely confused with a dual set of switches with dimmers in Miss pre-BPG flat in Edinburgh. Took me a few hours to work out what the flip was going on with them and I didn't have a meter for that. |
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